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Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
[ Edited ]
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Top Poster All Time
Posts: 41086
Registered: 09-30-2002

Message 1 of 67

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Read this article and try not to be angry...or scared.....like I am.
Furor Over Sony Patent
Technology that could prevent resale of games and other digital goods raises speculation, fears.
By Dawn C. Chmielewski, Times Staff Writer July 10, 2006
Sony Corp. has patented technology that would prevent its PlayStation consoles from playing used, rented or borrowed video games — raising questions about whether the electronics and entertainment giant may attempt to redefine what it means to own something in the digital age. Sony has said little about the technology, patented in Japan in 2000, or how it might be deployed. But speculation over Sony's plans has sparked a furor online as game fans and consumer advocates fret that the company may incorporate it into the upcoming PlayStation 3 console, due to hit stores this fall.
They worry that it would wipe out the $1-billion-a-year market for used games and could even prevent someone from playing their games at a friend's house. It is not unusual for technology companies to patent innovations and then never incorporate them into products. Documents filed in April 2000 with the U.S. Patent Office describe a method of copy protection by which the game system would verify a disc as legitimate, register the disc to that particular game console, then wipe out verification data so the disc would be rendered unreadable in other PlayStations. "Since only titles for which legitimate software has actually been purchased and which have been initially registered in the machine table can be used, resale (so-called used software purchase) after purchase by an end user becomes practically impossible," according to the patent documents. Although Sony has been vague about its plans for the technology, "I actually think they're toying with this idea," said Michael Pachter, a game industry analyst for Wedbush Morgan Securities. Pachter said he thought Sony probably would not tighten the software locks on PlayStation 3 games but might employ bolstered copy protection on other forms of entertainment downloaded to the console over the Internet. "Maybe they'll copy protect movies or music downloads," he said. Whatever Sony's plans, the tempest illustrates the changing nature of ownership as millions of people accumulate vast collections of digital entertainment. Few people realize that when they buy software, music or movies, they are actually buying a license to use, listen or watch. That's why it violates copyright laws for people to sell copies of their music collection. Sony was attacked this year for including software on some of its music CDs that surreptitiously installed itself on computers playing the disc. The software was intended to prevent unauthorized copying. Sony later apologized. Taking that sort of copy protection one step further would be, in the words of one analyst, "crazy." "What does Sony get from that?" said John Taylor of Arcadia Investment Corp. "Sony gets a black eye. It doesn't make sense to me." Several analysts said the patent appeared to principally be aimed at deterring game piracy. Indeed, Sony's patent notes that through the complexity of its copy-protection scheme "manufacture of counterfeit software becomes extremely difficult." And it's not unusual for technology companies such as Sony to register patents either in anticipation of one day collecting royalties from someone seeking to license the technology or to prevent someone else from deploying it. "These are all things technologically possible to do in any computing device," said one cryptographer, who requested anonymity. "In the video game business, it would be suicide for someone to do this. It's actually possible Sony filed this because they wanted to keep people from doing that." Nonetheless, online speculation that Sony would use technological or other means to ban the sale of used PlayStation 3 video games prompted one analyst, P.J. McNealy of American Technology Research, to study its potential effect on the industry. "While we believe it is unlikely that SNE will ban PS3 pre-owned games from being sold by the same chains that sell new PS3 games, we believe this issue remains under consideration," McNealy wrote in a research note issued June 23. McNealy estimated that game fans spent about $990 million buying used games, primarily from GameStop or through EBay. Much of that spending — about $620 million — is for used PlayStation 2 games. Were Sony to ban the sale of used games for its next-generation PS3, the effect on independent video game publishers would be negligible, McNealy said. Used-game sales are a growing source of irritation for game publishers, which receive no proceeds from the resale of games. Executives privately complain that cheaper secondhand games are available for sale shortly after a new game's release; publishers, which give retailers marketing money to promote games, end up competing with discounted versions of their own titles. Major independent game publishers Electronic Arts Inc., Activision Inc. and THQ Inc. declined to comment. Meanwhile, used games are a lucrative source of revenue for retailer GameStop, which began reporting pre-owned game sales after its acquisition of competitor EB. Last year, secondhand game sales accounted for $930 million in revenue and $418 million in profit. The profit margin was 45%, compared with 21% for new games, according to Arcadia Investment Corp. Analysts say used-game sales contribute to the overall growth of the video game market, in the same way that the ability to trade in a used vehicle fuels the new-car market. "A used-car market creates currency to buy new cars. Same with games. Everybody acknowledges that," Pachter said. "The problem is if the used game is available a week after the new game is out for a $5 discount."
Here is what was said about this topic last November: http://www.ps3focus.com/archives/159
Sony Computer Entertainment’s UK PR Manager Jennie Kong stated,
“I would like to clarify that [the Playstation 3 locking out used game discs] is false speculation and that Playstation 3 software will not be copy protected to a single machine but will be playable on any Playstation 3 console.”
Comments? Message Edited by CNNboy on 07-11-2006 09:42 PM
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07-11-2006 05:27 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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Spec Op
Posts: 9316
Registered: 03-30-2005

Message 2 of 67

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"patented in Japan in 2000"
Sony has already gone on record THIS YEAR that the PlayStation 3 will be able to play used games, thus being able to bring games over to friends house and the like.
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07-11-2006 06:06 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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We Are The Universe
Posts: 10637
Registered: 09-11-2004

Message 3 of 67

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I am one that gets angry at this since I am a big buyer of used games. It does make perfect sense though that Sony does want to ban used game sales for the PlayStation consoles yet, I can't even borrow my friends games if I want to play one. It stinks but we are going to have to live with this. Personally, I don't this will go well with some people because sometimes all they can afford is used games. However, now with EBgames, we will actually get our games new for once. With PlayStation 2 games, it seems like they play them and repackage them so it looks like they are new. This is somehow an advantage to us.
Overall, it might go well, we will see. 
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07-11-2006 06:06 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
[ Edited ]
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Shinigami
Posts: 12636
Registered: 03-20-2003

Message 4 of 67

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I think developers should be entitled to their money, and when renting along with used games sales tower that of brand new games sold it presents a problem for everyone, includine you, the gamer... I think by patenting this Sony can enter into agreement with places like gamestop, ebgames, gamecrazy and collect royalties on used games these places sell; same can be said about rentals. I mean why should gamestop be buying used games for half their cost then turning around selling these games for often $5 less than it would cost new. I mean at some point the industry as a whole has to do something because used game sales is a big problem right now, as are game rentals. idk an exact number but I'd bet 90% of gamers buy few games if any, and rent numerous titles a month-year, and to many people buy used to save a measly $5... if people are'nt buying the games these companies are'nt seeing a return on their investment... idk, I'd be fine if they could do something so that the developers and Sony are still seeing their share of the purchase when it comes to used games, and rentals... on the other hand people who buy a game new should be able to do with it as they wish. If they find they don't like the game they should'nt be forced to get screwed by gamestop and take the pennies they're offering, they should have the right to sell their game on ebay or amazon.com or where ever they so desire. Maybe they can sell the game back to Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft for 3/4 of what they paid for it and these places can turn around and sell used games keeping the money in the industry... It's rare that I actually sell a game but after 2-3 years I often find a hanful of games I no longer want, and I should have the right to do with it as I wish, it's not like these games are taking away new sales because most of the time these games are OOP...
A better idea I've had in recent months is that Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft should simply run their own retail store selling new games, used games, trade ins and rentals; maybe just go online and require case and manual for trade ins, once games are sent in credit is given to your online account and you can order a new game if and when you want one. One store under all console developers to keep the flow of the games being sold and rented in gaming. And by doing so maybe they could offer games for a little less money because they'd eliminate the middle man, wich would possibly appeal to more people, and possibly result in more sales. I know if all games were $40 I'd buy alot more games than I currently do and I buy quite a few games each year... but yeah, that's quite a bit unrealistic so I think by patenting this and having these retailers sign a contract to pay royalities for used games sales, and rentals it only helps the industry and is essentially the best thing to do... As I said previously, why should gamestop be able to buy a used game from a consumer for $25 then turn around and sell it for $45; only $5 less than it would cost new, and they're the ones pocketing all this money...
Personally I don't rent games but with an increase in software prices I not only don't have the money to buy every game I want to play but I would'nt anyway. When I buy a game it's something I know I want to own and something I'm probably going to play at some point down the road. If I feel the game does'nt offer enough value for my taste and uses then I simply don't but it until it's cheaper, and there's always some games I know I don't want to own and can easily be rentals. Since I don't rent often if ever I normally don't even play these games, and when I do I play them for a night at a friends house and Im completely fine with that, Im done with the game, but that just goes to show how little use and value I'd have got from the games had I bought them... I'll leave at that... one more note, lol... Though I can care less about used games sales and think they should go I think keeping rentals somehow would be the best way to go. Be it entering an agreement with Gamefly.com to rent games or something I think renting games is just to important. It gives people the chance to try the game they're thinking of buying, allows less fortunate people to play games, is a great place to find something you want to play for a night or two, etc... it's sad so many people rely on rentals but I think rentals are an intricate part to gaming, and look at what happened to the Saturn w/o support from places like Blockbuster. Granted not the one and only reason for their demise but the reason I, while in High School brought back my Saturn a day after purchasing it and traded it in for a PS...
Message Edited by Seraphim on 07-11-2006 09:47 PM
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07-11-2006 06:30 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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PlayStation MVP
Posts: 15141
Registered: 03-25-2005

Message 5 of 67

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Light_Jak wrote:
I am one that gets angry at this since I am a big buyer of used games. It does make perfect sense though that Sony does want to ban used game sales for the PlayStation consoles yet, I can't even borrow my friends games if I want to play one. It stinks but we are going to have to live with this. Personally, I don't this will go well with some people because sometimes all they can afford is used games. However, now with EBgames, we will actually get our games new for once. With PlayStation 2 games, it seems like they play them and repackage them so it looks like they are new. This is somehow an advantage to us.
Overall, it might go well, we will see. 
See, I side with most of the industry on this issue- I don't think stores should sell used games, at all. The devs don't get a penny from a used game sale. Sure, games are expensive, but prices are only going to rise more if people are finding ways to get games for cheaper. The companies lose money for every used game people buy, which is only going to result in higher prices to make up for lost profit. Not to mention that I've had bad experiences with used games, where they didn't work.
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07-11-2006 06:30 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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WHO DEY!
Posts: 6466
Registered: 03-31-2005

Message 6 of 67

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JDplasma11 wrote:
Light_Jak wrote:
I am one that gets angry at this since I am a big buyer of used games. It does make perfect sense though that Sony does want to ban used game sales for the PlayStation consoles yet, I can't even borrow my friends games if I want to play one. It stinks but we are going to have to live with this. Personally, I don't this will go well with some people because sometimes all they can afford is used games. However, now with EBgames, we will actually get our games new for once. With PlayStation 2 games, it seems like they play them and repackage them so it looks like they are new. This is somehow an advantage to us.
Overall, it might go well, we will see. 
See, I side with most of the industry on this issue- I don't think stores should sell used games, at all. The devs don't get a penny from a used game sale. Sure, games are expensive, but prices are only going to rise more if people are finding ways to get games for cheaper. The companies lose money for every used game people buy, which is only going to result in higher prices to make up for lost profit. Not to mention that I've had bad experiences with used games, where they didn't work.
The developers don't need to get income from the same game twice, though. They already got $X from a certain game, IMO there's no need for them to continue genreating revenue if the same game is resold 7 times. In order for there to be used games, the "new" one has to be purchased first, so there will always be that initial cash flow (which is often a generally satisfactory one-unless the game is a bomb, then it really doesn't matter anyway).
I buy my fair share of used games, but I do like to get the new ones when I can afford to. Of course, tha's just because of the fact thjat I like to keep my discs in pristine condition, and used games aren't exactly always very pretty.
 Currently Playing: Madden NFL 10, Modern Warfare 2
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07-11-2006 08:41 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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Shinigami
Posts: 12636
Registered: 03-20-2003

Message 7 of 67

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random_hero215 wrote:
JDplasma11 wrote:
Light_Jak wrote:
I am one that gets angry at this since I am a big buyer of used games. It does make perfect sense though that Sony does want to ban used game sales for the PlayStation consoles yet, I can't even borrow my friends games if I want to play one. It stinks but we are going to have to live with this. Personally, I don't this will go well with some people because sometimes all they can afford is used games. However, now with EBgames, we will actually get our games new for once. With PlayStation 2 games, it seems like they play them and repackage them so it looks like they are new. This is somehow an advantage to us.
Overall, it might go well, we will see. 
See, I side with most of the industry on this issue- I don't think stores should sell used games, at all. The devs don't get a penny from a used game sale. Sure, games are expensive, but prices are only going to rise more if people are finding ways to get games for cheaper. The companies lose money for every used game people buy, which is only going to result in higher prices to make up for lost profit. Not to mention that I've had bad experiences with used games, where they didn't work.
The developers don't need to get income from the same game twice, though. They already got $X from a certain game, IMO there's no need for them to continue genreating revenue if the same game is resold 7 times. In order for there to be used games, the "new" one has to be purchased first, so there will always be that initial cash flow (which is often a generally satisfactory one-unless the game is a bomb, then it really doesn't matter anyway).
I buy my fair share of used games, but I do like to get the new ones when I can afford to. Of course, tha's just because of the fact thjat I like to keep my discs in pristine condition, and used games aren't exactly always very pretty.
that's exactly the problem... when people are buying used games 7 times for $5 less than they could if they bought it used the developers/publishers are losing those 7 game sales to the used game market... it's all about volume and used sales steal new game sales from developers/publishers. No they don't need to sell the same game twice but they need to sell the games new so they actually see the return on their investment. For every 1 used game sold they developer is losing 1 new game sale... and as I said, gamespot often sells their games for only $5 less than they cost new, causing alot of people to buy used instead of buying new. When this happens gamestop makes $20-25 and the game company makes a big fat $0...
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07-11-2006 09:00 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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Metal Gear
Posts: 4744
Registered: 01-24-2004

Message 8 of 67

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A Little Project that Sony will play with and see how it goes? I Hope not. Many people play used games and it would be impossible to play ONE game on ONE console only. If you buy a game and the game gets wear and tears over time and if Sony had that type of plan, the PS3 disc wouldnt play one day because the PS3 has detected it is used. So to a conclusion i agree that this is totally false in my opinion and if it's true, this would hurt sony bad and hard and might make them the least popular console.
PSN ID = DeeJayTea
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07-11-2006 10:47 PM
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Re: Furor Over Sony Patent!!!
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PlayStation MVP
Posts: 15141
Registered: 03-25-2005

Message 10 of 67

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random_hero215 wrote:
JDplasma11 wrote:
Light_Jak wrote:
I am one that gets angry at this since I am a big buyer of used games. It does make perfect sense though that Sony does want to ban used game sales for the PlayStation consoles yet, I can't even borrow my friends games if I want to play one. It stinks but we are going to have to live with this. Personally, I don't this will go well with some people because sometimes all they can afford is used games. However, now with EBgames, we will actually get our games new for once. With PlayStation 2 games, it seems like they play them and repackage them so it looks like they are new. This is somehow an advantage to us.
Overall, it might go well, we will see. 
See, I side with most of the industry on this issue- I don't think stores should sell used games, at all. The devs don't get a penny from a used game sale. Sure, games are expensive, but prices are only going to rise more if people are finding ways to get games for cheaper. The companies lose money for every used game people buy, which is only going to result in higher prices to make up for lost profit. Not to mention that I've had bad experiences with used games, where they didn't work.
The developers don't need to get income from the same game twice, though. They already got $X from a certain game, IMO there's no need for them to continue genreating revenue if the same game is resold 7 times. In order for there to be used games, the "new" one has to be purchased first, so there will always be that initial cash flow (which is often a generally satisfactory one-unless the game is a bomb, then it really doesn't matter anyway).
I buy my fair share of used games, but I do like to get the new ones when I can afford to. Of course, tha's just because of the fact thjat I like to keep my discs in pristine condition, and used games aren't exactly always very pretty.
Exactly. If you want a game, you should at least respect the devs enough to buy a new copy so they get paid for doing thier job. If one person buys a game, trades it in, and it's resold to someone else, that's 2 people playing 1 copy of the game, and the devs only got paid once. Games shouldn't be resold, at all.
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07-12-2006 05:56 AM
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