thanks that helped alot
i broke my hdmi cable will go out and buy a new one thanks

<a href="http://www.us.playstation.com/PSN/Users/nebbles1721"><
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So where does the whole category 1 category 2 spec come in?

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RUSirius wrote:

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Bruno2586 wrote:

I treat my electronics the same way I do my car. I'm not going to buy a turbo from e-bay or a $250 exhuast manifold from taiwan that will crack in 2 months, i'll stick with the proven shops and manufacturers. Thats just me though.

Since you seem to be an electronics guru. Have you have a chance the compare and contrast Sony & Mitsu LCD's. I just bought a Mitsu 57'' 1080P DLP. It's a lot cheaper then the Sony's and performs just as good or better.

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I'm not one to ask about DLP sets..   Unfortunately I'm one of the unlucky ones that see the rainbow effect REALLY bad... I've always prefered the LCoS sets... They have the best of both worlds with none of the negatives... I did get a chance to see the 73" (or was it 71"? can't remember) DLP set from mitsubishi...  It was actually pretty awesome, and I actually saw much less rainbow effect with it then I do in most other sets... (some of the new samsung sets cut it down a lot too)...

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I got the Samsung LED DLP and it does not produce rainbows at all.

The color is twice what it is on the LCOS sets, much more accurate too.      The response time tromps all over the LCOS sets.  You get a sharper picture too.

So I am an Instrument Technician(2nd yr) and a Electrician(Journeyman), I wanted to post something about signal loss in a digital system.

Some digital signals use parity bits for error correction.  The system is lookin for 7 or 8 bits of data every packet, every bit is either a 1 or a 0.

Whats more importent is if the packet is suppossed to have a even or odd amount of bits.

The one and zero are dirved from a 0-5v signal in my example.  My numbers might be a little off.

 If the voltage is 3.2v-5v it is considered on or 1.  if the voltage is 0-2.3v it is considered off or 0.

So when the voltage is 2.4-3.1v the system doesnt know whether it is on or off.

So the # of bits is examined, if its suppossed to be 8 bits and they only read 5 or 7 then the entire 8 bit packet is re-sent.

This re-inforces what the OP has said about either no signal or perfect signal.

There is a possiblity to lose 2 or 4 bits of data from a packet which would result in the original format of even or odd and could cause the system to think that is the intended signal.

This would result in possible signal degradation but is not common or likely.

Feel free to correct me as its been awhile since I went to school, I dont even know if HDMI uses parity bits.

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guth~ wrote:

Ok, I will be short.

"Degradation" to me is when the audio/video gets worse, no matter in what way. If that's not the correct definition, I'm very sorry.

The reason you see blocks in the kind of degradation you get from DVD and digital TV is because it's compressed data (as you say yourself). HDMI is not compressed, which is why you wouldn't get that kind of degradation. Instead it would probably get fuzzy, snowy, blurry and loose definition when the receiver starts guessing data.

I can agree that the gap between perfect quality and no audio/video at all is probably rather small, but it *is* a gap. It's not an edge as you say. And if the cable is within that gap, there will be degradation. And if the receiver does some smart guessing (interpolation) you will loose definition, and this might not be that easy to spot. It's really as simple as that.

Finally a quote from a page you linked to earlier (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/125179.html, and I agree it's a very good read). Note the part where it says that data loss may result in interpolation (guessing).

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it's often assumed that SPDIF digital audio, or DVI digital video, employ error correction. Because these formats are meant to deliver content in real time, however, they can't employ error correction; there's no time to re-send data packets which aren't correctly received. So when digital data are lost, the loss is final. Depending on what is lost, this may result in an interpolation (to "guess" the content of the missing data), an error (where data are misread and the erroneous content is rendered in place of the correct content), or a total failure (where the signal may disappear entirely for a period of time).

 

 

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This is really all I have to say. People are probably best off reading the link above instead of listening to any of us (especially you ).

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Recon-X wrote:

buying expensive cables arent always about quality you know.

 

Yep, I feel the same way about buying "quality" products. And, I also think $35 is a reasonable price for a well-built name-brand HDMI cable. However, people keep thinking the issue is about the cost of the cable.

I think the cost of the HDMI cable is completely irrelevant. The argument really comes down to what people claim to be happening...

Some HDMI cables result in a better quality picture

And, re-phrasing that to highlight what would have to be happening if it were true...

HDMI cables subtly alter the digital data passing through them in ways that are not detected by the HDMI processors  n both the sender and reciever

 

I presume everyone can agree that perfect copies of vast amounts of digital data are made every second of every day, over vast distances on copper wiring older than they are. Yet somehow these same people seem unable to believe an extremely simplified version of that process can happen between two shiny new high-tech devices sitting a metre apart, simply because the brand new cable connecting them only cost $5.

• Analogue data transfers ( outside research centres ) have zero error checking. Basically the destination device has no way to know what was added or lost during transfer. That's why cables used for analogue data transmisson are a critical component
• Analogue hi-fi gear no component can ever be perfect. So, every single component gets debated and refined with regards to minimising unwanted errors, including all cables down the power cable. It all affects the end result, because there is no error-detection.
• Digital ttransmission protocols going back to the 60s have error-checking, so even back then the destination device knew if it didn't have a perfect copy. That normally means everything had to be sent again, but at least you knew if you had a perfect copy or not.
• HDMI protocol  has so much more. It includes technologies such as fault-tolerance, error-correction, redundancy, etc. And HDMI uses them for the same purpose as in hundreds of other areas requiring data transmission...
  • Detect errors
  • Immediately correct any errors using available with parity data
  • Verify that a perfect copy of the information sent, was recieved.
  • Under extreme situations, playback of the data stream would stop. Some horrible artifacts might pop up on an older HDMI screen, or even lockup the TV.

Many people have previously said about HDMI playback; you either get perfect playback of the data sent, or you get nothing. Cable-X might be technically far superior to cable-Y, but all the error-correction and redundant data means you end up with a perfect picture using either cable. I just  think a lot of people are stuck with notion from analogue days, that your systemcan't be better than it's worst component. So it's a bit hard to reconcile the fact a $300 component which looks awesome doesn't perform any better than a $5 cable that looks like crap... it defies analogue logic

Okay, I'm also ignoring the possibility that HDMI cables may have been sent back from the future, containing armadas of nanobots that subtly change HDMI picture data passing through the cable and modifying all the other data which would've pointed to the changes as soon as it was received.

If you accept that HDMI cables make zero difference to the end picture, reading Hi-Fi magazine reviews becomes pretty funny...

"this cable delivers a muscular sound with a decent sense of slam and attack in the lower frequencies. However, it doesn't sound particaularly music or refined"

"unearths impressive levels of detail and fires out movies effects far and wide"

And thinking about magazine reviewers conjured up a comedy skit in my head...

"This is Bob... like most of us, he obviously loves technology. You use the internet, Bob?"

"Hell yes, I really enjoy sending and recieving perfectly replicated copies of digital information all around world in the blink of an eye. Man, it's amazing how it all happens, even when they data has to be transmitted over copper cables that were buried in the ground back when comuters barely existed!!!"

"I can't help but notice your entire house is all wired for networking Bob... nice one!"

"Yep, just ran some cables under the floor. Even used Cat6 Shielded since it's only $5 for 20m pre-made... no more Wi-Fi dropouts for me, thanks."

"... and I've spied one of them running to that awesome looking AV setup..."

"Ah, the pride and joy. Hey, check out the new HDMI cable by VanDorfboow ... sure, it cost $150, but it has to span a distance of 2 metres between the player and the TV where it's actually parallel to earths magnetic field. There was an obvious loss of vibrancy to images whenever sunspot activity peaked. The guy at the AV shop recommended I install that new AntiFlareFoil in the ceiling and wall cavities, just to be sure."